Who’s Right? Immunity From C-19 Vaccination vs the Virus.

Vaccination vs virus
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While tidying up we found an unpublished post from December 2021, in which Dr Matt Shelton rebuts statements from Stuff’s Brittney Deguara about whether vaccination or disease provides superior immunity.

We thank Dan Suter for initiating and publishing this originally on 30 Nov 2020. The information is still very pertinent, as the main stream message insists that we need to get boosted.

Debating Vaccination vs Virus

Here is the original Stuff article by Brittney Deguara. Her statements are in italics followed by Dr Matt’s replies in bold.

The vaccine offers good protection against Covid-19, without the risks of the disease. A preprint study has emerged suggesting immunity following infection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, may be better than vaccine-elicited immunity. These findings have been used by some to suggest getting the disease is better than   getting vaccinated. This clearly makes no sense.

This is just a preprint, but they have become a necessity when waiting 2 to 3 months for peer review can delay a correct understanding, or even treatments. It showed natural immunity is way better than vaccination (up to 13x, even more if vaccinations were long ago) and the suggestion that a single dose might add to natural immunity did NOT REACH STATISTICAL SIGNIFICANCE. Still, infection or not, already it seems like double vaxxed are showing up in all cause mortality 30-50% more than unvaxxed.

Anyway, all research quoting cases, infections etc is based on the fraudulent PCR test, where false positives can run to 97% at the cycle threshold repetitions in current use.

Unlike immunity following infection, the vaccine doesn’t require you to risk getting severely ill from a disease that has already killed over 4.5 million people worldwide.

Such estimates don’t account for the many reports and observations that the vast majority of such deaths have occurred in people who already had significant underlying medical conditions, nor for the recognition that health system directives have required people dying of entirely unrelated illnesses or conditions to be labelled a “COVID-19” death simply by having a positive PCR test within 28 days of death.

Statistics are now emerging which show increased all-cause mortality, where non-COVID excess deaths over those expected for the age group and season are beginning to outnumber deaths labelled as COVID deaths. The correlation and likely correlation points to these being vaccine-related deaths.

Before we unpack the new findings, let’s dive into what natural immunity is.  To start, medical professionals tend to refer to it as infection-induced or disease-induced immunity.

When you recover from Covid-19, your body creates little pathogen-fighting proteins called antibodies that can fight off future infections of SARS-CoV-2. Then, if you’re infected again, the antibodies can respond more rapidly and with greater strength than they did initially.

A similar thing happens when you get the vaccine. The first dose gives your cells background information on the virus so they can learn how to respond. The second dose then boosts and activates that memory response.

Similar is not the same. What about innate immunity, T cells, mucosal IgA, NK (natural killer) cells and other Igs (Immunoglobulins) to other parts of the virus, not just the S1 region of the RNA-coded spike protein?  And what about antibody dependent enhancement?

The study out of Israel – which is yet to be peer-reviewed – suggests natural immunity has longer-lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalisation caused by the Delta variant than two doses of Pfizer.

You’re telling me it does! (“You’re a lawyer with no scientific background’: Rand Paul attacks Sec. Becerra on vaccine mandates”)

While infection can induce a potent level of natural immunity, the risks associated with getting there are huge,” said Dr Nikki Moreland, a senior lecturer in immunology at the University of Auckland. “This virus can wreak havoc on the body.”

Mostly it doesn’t in otherwise healthy people, even in those with underlying conditions, if they are properly treated. And so can the vaccine.

Other large studies found something different to the Israeli work.  Researchers from the United Kingdom found two doses from Pfizer or AstraZeneca were at least as protective as prior natural infection against Delta. To put it simply, you can get significant protection from a safe vaccine without the risk of a serious disease, death, or developing what’s known as long-Covid.

Don’t they read their own references?

“There was no evidence that effectiveness varied by dosing interval, but protection was higher among those vaccinated following a prior infection and younger adults. With Delta, infections occurring following two vaccinations had similar peak viral burden to those in unvaccinated individuals. SARS-CoV-2 vaccination still reduces [but does not eliminate] new infections; effectiveness and attenuation of peak viral burden [by vaccination] are reduced with Delta [compared to prior strains].” [our insertions]

In other words, more protection from prior exposure, same transmissibility, whether vaxxed or not, and declining effectiveness in protection from Delta, and we know that 3 months on, the immunity has dropped much more, hence the requirement for boosters.

Symptoms of the so-called “long COVID” turn out to be much the same as those seen in those having avoided early deaths after the vaccine, but experiencing longer term debilitating effects.

No matter the age, the potential health risks of Covid-19 are worrying. A preprint study out of Uruguay estimated age-specific frequencies of severe, critical and fatal disease. For teenagers and those under 30, the risk of dying from Covid-19 is extremely low, but there is a risk of becoming severely ill and needing hospitalisation.

That risk is still very low as shown in the paper.  There’s also great variability in the amounts and quality of data as the authors state.  And also notable overestimates in mortality, severe and serious disease rates in the oldest groups compared to better real world results –  probably representative of  earlier 2020 data when ventilator and midazolam culls were happening.

The longevity of natural immunity is still undetermined with research finding it to be dependent on disease severity and the variant. How long vaccine-elicited immunity lasts is also still unknown, but it’s suggested most vaccinated people may be protected long term.

The Science Daily study summarises a study that used a fake virus particle to assess the effect of natural antibodies.  No meaningful conclusion can be made because they have no real virus to test against, as no-one has!

The ‘Nature’ study is rubbish. Multiple studies disprove this. Natural immunity will be long term because this is how the body works, with broad based effectiveness against the variants.  This is in significant part because natural immunity produces antibodies against many more parts of the virus than the spike-protein vaccines, and engages the many and complex elements of cellular immunity, and chemical signalling mediators. If only we would stop putting vaccine-induced pressure on the variants still circulating, we would see the beneficial effects of naturally acquired herd immunity.

On top of this, the Israeli pre-print study reported a single jab for recovered cases gave additional protection. 

As stated, not statistically significant.

Several countries have already advised recovered cases to only get one jab, whereas New Zealand health officials recommend two jabs for everyone.

 So much for the precautionary principle. NZ is after vax obedience, not the best scientifically rational solution.  

Reasonable shortish review article here.

Eventually, immune memory fades – some people’s quicker than others – so booster shots might be helpful for everyone in the future.

“Might”? This study again uses amounts of a narrow band of adaptive RBD antibodies to fake spike protein as a proxy for future immunity, again ignoring T -cells etc.

So, what does all of this mean for recovered cases? You should still be getting two Covid-19 jabs to protect yourself and your whānau.

No it does not, for the reasons stated and many more, and no mention anywhere of the real risks of the vaccines.

There is so much more to the prevention and treatment of C-19, than vaccination. It would behoove the authorities, who are “keeping us safe” to look beyond vaccination to prevention and early treatment.

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